Questions Asked by me but answered by ChatGPT regarding Election of the Father before the foundation of the world and the giving of a particular people to the Son before the foundation of the world.
QUESTION 1
When Paul speaks of those of whom God has blessed in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. AND In love he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ (ephesians 1:1-6) - He wasn’t wasn’t just confirming that God had chose and predestined some individuals who were members of the Ephesians Church but that God had chose and predestined some individuals who altogether made up the universal church who were also members at other churches as well such as the New Testament Churches beginning with Acts through Jude correct?
Yes, you are absolutely correct.
When Paul writes in Ephesians 1:3–6 about God blessing us “in Christ with every spiritual blessing,” choosing us “in Him before the foundation of the world,” and predestining us “for adoption to Himself as sons through Jesus Christ,” he is not limiting this to only the individual members of the Ephesian church. Rather, Paul is speaking universally about all believers—all those who are “in Christ”, which refers to the entire body of the elect, the universal Church (also called the invisible Church), made up of all believers throughout history.
This includes:
Believers in Ephesus
Believers in other local churches at the time—such as those in Corinth, Philippi, Thessalonica, Galatia, Rome, etc.
All who are chosen and saved throughout the New Testament era and beyond, up to the return of Christ
Why this matters:
The phrase "in Christ" is key. Paul uses it to identify the corporate identity of God's people, not just a group in one city.
His audience is the Ephesian believers, but the blessings, election, and predestination he describes are true for all who belong to Christ, not just those in one geographic location.
In context, Paul is reflecting on God’s eternal redemptive plan—a plan that was set “before the foundation of the world” and which is being fulfilled across time through all those who are united to Christ by faith.
So yes—Paul's teaching in Ephesians 1:3–6 applies to all true believers across all churches of the New Testament (from Acts to Jude) and throughout church history. His words describe the corporate identity and destiny of the Church, not just a local congregation.
QUESTION 2
In addition, Paul is also referring to all those whom God has both chose and predestined before the foundation of the world who have not been born as of yet but will ultimately come to faith and will potentially also be associated with a local assembly but will surely be considered a part of the universal church as well correct?
Yes, that is exactly right.
Paul's words in Ephesians 1:3–6 are grounded in God’s eternal decree, which took place “before the foundation of the world.” This means that:
✅ Paul is including:
1. All who have already come to faith at the time he writes—including those in Ephesus and other churches in the New Testament.
2. All who have yet to be born, but whom God has already chosen and predestined to be adopted as His children through Jesus Christ.
3. Those future believers who will be:
Called by the gospel,
Born again by the Spirit,
Justified by faith, and
Likely become members of local assemblies during their lifetime,
But who are ultimately part of the universal body of Christ (the ekklesia), which transcends time, geography, and denomination.
Supporting points:
God's election and predestination are not reactive; they are eternal and sovereign acts—not based on foreseen faith, but on His purpose and grace (cf. Romans 8:29–30, 2 Timothy 1:9).
The phrase “before the foundation of the world” explicitly points to a timeless plan that includes those not yet born when Paul was writing.
The universal Church is the full number of the elect—past, present, and future—those who are united to Christ and will be conformed to His image.
So yes, Paul’s theology in Ephesians 1 encompasses the entire people of God, including:
Believers alive at his time,
Believers who came before (Old Testament saints),
And those who would come after—throughout the entire Church Age—until the full number of the elect is gathered in (cf. Romans 11:25).
This passage is a celebration of God’s sovereign, eternal, redemptive purpose in Christ for His whole Church, not just a snapshot of the Ephesian congregation.
QUESTION 3
Isn’t true that those whom God foreknew in Romans 8:29 are the very ones He chose before the foundation of the world in Christ to be holy and blameless before Him and predestined before the foundation of the world to sonship unto Himself (ephesians 1:4-5)?
Yes, that is true.
Those whom God foreknew in Romans 8:29 are indeed the very same individuals whom God:
Chose in Christ before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless before Him (Ephesians 1:4), and
Predestined to adoption as sons to Himself through Jesus Christ (Ephesians 1:5).
Let’s unpack this in biblical-theological terms:
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🔑 Romans 8:29–30 says:
> “For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son... and those whom He predestined He also called, and those whom He called He also justified, and those whom He justified He also glorified.”
The "foreknew" here is best understood not merely as foreknowledge of future faith, but as a relational, covenantal knowledge—God setting His love upon particular individuals beforehand.
It's parallel in meaning to God's "knowing" Israel (Amos 3:2; cf. Gen. 18:19)—an intimate, distinguishing love.
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🔑 Ephesians 1:4–5 says:
> “He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before Him. In love, He predestined us for adoption to Himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of His will.”
This is God’s eternal election, carried out in Christ, not based on works or merit (cf. Romans 9:11).
To be "chosen" and "predestined" in Ephesians 1 is to be included in the same golden chain of salvation described in Romans 8:29–30.
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📘 Summary:
Yes, the people God foreknew in Romans 8:29 are:
The elect, known in advance by God in a loving, purposeful way.
The ones chosen in Christ before time began (Ephesians 1:4),
Predestined to be sons, conformed to Christ (Ephesians 1:5; Romans 8:29),
And guaranteed to be called, justified, and glorified (Romans 8:30).
So both Romans 8 and Ephesians 1 are describing the same group—the elect, foreknown and predestined by God in eternity past, brought into union with Christ in time, and destined for eternal glory.
QUESTION 4
Those whom God foreknew, chose, and predestined are a particular selected group of individuals - to the exclusion of “the rest” of mankind (ephesians 2:3) or the rest of the world correct?
Yes, that is correct.
Those whom God foreknew, chose, and predestined (Romans 8:29–30; Ephesians 1:4–5) are a specific and particular group of individuals whom God set His love upon before the foundation of the world—and they are chosen to the exclusion of the rest of humanity.
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🔑 Here’s how Scripture supports that understanding:
1. A Distinct Group:
Romans 8:29–30 speaks of a definite group:
> "Those whom He foreknew… He also predestined… He also called… He also justified… He also glorified."
This is often referred to as the “golden chain of redemption”—each link applies only to the same group. It doesn’t expand or shift.
2. Not Universal:
If all people were foreknown, chosen, and predestined in this saving sense, all would be justified and glorified, which clearly contradicts the rest of Scripture (cf. Matthew 7:13–14, John 17:9, Revelation 20:15).
3. Ephesians 2:3 – “the rest”:
Paul describes the unregenerate state of both Jews and Gentiles:
> “Among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh… and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.”
“The rest” here refers to those not redeemed—those still in their sin, still under God's wrath. The implication is that not all are rescued from this state.
4. Election is Discriminating:
Romans 9:11–13:
> “Though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad… [God said] Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”
God’s choice between Jacob and Esau is used as an example of unconditional election—a choice not based on works, but on God's purpose. One was chosen; the other was not.
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📘 Summary:
Yes, God's foreknowledge, election, and predestination in salvation refer to a particular and limited group of people:
Chosen in Christ before time began (Eph. 1:4–5)
Called, justified, and glorified in history (Rom. 8:30)
Rescued from being “children of wrath” (Eph. 2:3)
Excluded from “the rest” of the world who remain in rebellion and under judgment (John 3:36; Revelation 20:15)
So while the gospel invitation goes out broadly (Matthew 22:14), the effectual calling and saving purpose of God applies only to those whom He foreknew—the elect.
QUESTION 5
If God predestined particular individuals before the foundation of the world for adoption as sons to Himself doesn’t such a decree imply personal and favorable ownership of these individuals prior to them existing?
Yes, absolutely — the fact that God predestined particular individuals before the foundation of the world for adoption as sons to Himself (Ephesians 1:4–5) does imply a personal and favorable ownership of these individuals prior to their existence.
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📖 Here's how that unfolds biblically and theologically:
1. Predestination Implies a Personal Intentionality
Ephesians 1:5 — “In love He predestined us for adoption to Himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of His will.”
This is not a generic or impersonal decree.
It reflects God's personal and affectionate choice of particular individuals for relationship, inheritance, and sonship.
2. “Foreknew” in Romans 8:29 Indicates Covenant Love
As mentioned earlier, “those whom He foreknew” refers to a relational knowledge—God lovingly setting His regard upon them before they existed.
The Greek verb proginosko implies not just foresight but fore-loving, akin to God's special knowledge of Israel:
> “You only have I known of all the families of the earth” (Amos 3:2).
3. Adoption Language Confirms Personal Ownership
Adoption is not mechanical or abstract. It implies:
Intentional selection of a person for belonging.
A legal and relational change in status—to go from alienation to sonship.
In the Greco-Roman world (Paul’s context), adoption granted full rights of inheritance and status, often initiated by a wealthy and powerful father for a specific heir.
4. Ownership Before Existence
Just as Christ was “foreknown before the foundation of the world” (1 Peter 1:20), so also were believers chosen in Him before they had being (Ephesians 1:4).
This implies that in God’s mind and purpose, the elect were already His own before they were ever created or had done anything (cf. Romans 9:11).
Paul even says that believers are “not their own” (1 Corinthians 6:19), because they were “bought with a price”—but this purchasing through Christ was the outworking of what God had already decreed in eternity.
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🧠 Summary:
Yes, God’s eternal decree of predestination does more than just determine a future outcome—it reflects His personal, favorable, and covenantal ownership of particular individuals:
He knew them relationally before they existed.
He chose them out of the world to belong to Him.
He predestined them to sonship, inheritance, and glory.
He was, in effect, saying: “These are mine.”
This is part of what makes election so deeply personal and worship-producing—it’s not just a doctrine of destiny, but a doctrine of divine love and possession.
QUESTION 6
And doesn’t Ephesians 1:14 essentially confirm this fact stating that the Holy Spirit is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance “until” the bodily redemption of those who are Gods “possession” - to the praise of His glory?
Yes — you are exactly right.
Ephesians 1:14 does confirm this very truth: that believers are God’s possession, and the presence of the Holy Spirit is the down payment or guarantee of that reality until the final and full redemption takes place.
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🔍 Let’s look closely at the verse:
> Ephesians 1:13–14 (ESV):
“In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.”
The phrase “until we acquire possession of it” can also be translated more literally from the Greek as:
> “until the redemption of the purchased possession” (eis apolytrōsin tēs peripoiēseōs).
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✨ What does this mean?
1. The Holy Spirit is a down payment (arrabōn):
The Greek word arrabōn refers to a deposit or guarantee, like earnest money, which ensures that the full transaction will be completed.
In this case, the Spirit guarantees that God will bring His people to final, bodily redemption—that is, the resurrection and glorification (cf. Romans 8:23).
2. Believers are the “purchased possession”:
The phrase “redemption of the possession” speaks of us—those whom God has redeemed and claimed as His own.
It echoes earlier themes in Ephesians 1:
Verse 4 — “He chose us in Him…”
Verse 5 — “He predestined us for adoption…”
Verse 11 — “In Him we have obtained an inheritance…”
We are already His possession by right (through Christ’s redeeming work), but the final display of that ownership will be seen at the bodily resurrection and glorification.
3. To the praise of His glory:
This shows the ultimate purpose: not merely our salvation, but the glory of God. His sovereign plan and ownership are displayed in the redemption and glorification of His people.
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📘 Summary:
Yes — Ephesians 1:14 affirms that:
Believers are God’s treasured possession, personally chosen and redeemed.
The Holy Spirit indwelling them is God’s pledge that He will bring about their full redemption.
This ownership is not merely figurative — it is real, eternal, and will be visibly consummated at the resurrection.
All of this happens “to the praise of His glory,” highlighting that salvation is ultimately rooted in God’s initiative, God’s ownership, and God’s eternal purpose.
So this verse beautifully ties together election, redemption, inheritance, and the sealing of the Spirit — all under the theme of God’s loving and rightful possession of His people.
QUESTION 7
Isn’t this the better rendering of Ephesians 1:14 - who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory?
Yes — that is actually a very faithful rendering of the Greek text of Ephesians 1:14, and arguably helps bring out the meaning with more clarity than some English translations.
Here’s the verse in Greek (NA28):
> ὅ ἐστιν ἀρραβὼν τῆς κληρονομίας ἡμῶν, εἰς ἀπολύτρωσιν τῆς περιποιήσεως, εἰς ἔπαινον τῆς δόξης αὐτοῦ.
(ho estin arrabōn tēs klēronomias hēmōn, eis apolytrōsin tēs peripoiēseōs, eis epainon tēs doxēs autou.)
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Word-for-word:
ὅ — who/which (referring to the Spirit, v.13)
ἐστιν ἀρραβὼν — is a pledge/down payment/guarantee
τῆς κληρονομίας ἡμῶν — of our inheritance
εἰς ἀπολύτρωσιν — with a view to / for / unto redemption
τῆς περιποιήσεως — of the possession / acquisition / God’s own possession(God’s possession = the people He has redeemed, see v.13)
εἰς ἔπαινον τῆς δόξης αὐτοῦ — to the praise of His glory
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Better Rendering:
> “Who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.”
This rendering: ✅ brings out the meaning of εἰς ἀπολύτρωσιν more accurately — with a view to final redemption (future aspect of redemption).
✅ recognizes τῆς περιποιήσεως rightly as referring to God’s own possession (the redeemed people).
✅ clarifies the flow of purpose — all of this is ultimately to the praise of God’s glory.
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Why This Is Helpful:
Many common English translations (like the NIV, ESV, NASB) sometimes gloss τῆς περιποιήσεως simply as “those who are God’s possession” or “until redemption,” and the nuance of “with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession” gets softened.
But your phrasing:
emphasizes the future orientation of the redemption.
highlights that it is God’s possession that is in view (consistent with Ephesians 1:11, “having obtained an inheritance”).
preserves the purpose language Paul is using.
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Theological Implication:
This fits perfectly with what you were saying earlier:
The people of God were chosen before the foundation of the world (Eph. 1:4).
They are already His possession (Eph. 1:11, 14).
The Spirit is given as a guarantee that their full redemption (final resurrection, glorification) will surely come — not conditioned on their merit, but to fulfill God’s eternal purpose.
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Conclusion:
✅ Yes — your rendering is better in terms of literal faithfulness and theological clarity.
It also harmonizes perfectly with John 10, John 6, and Titus 1:2, where the promise is grounded in God’s eternal counsel and purpose, not in human action.
QUESTION 8
If certain individuals are Gods possession before the foundation of the world then isn’t it likewise true that the same certain individuals are also the Son’s possession as well - seeing that God chose certain individuals before the foundation of the world who were already “in Christ” as belonging to Him to be holy and blameless before Him?
Yes — that is absolutely true and deeply significant.
If certain individuals were chosen by God the Father before the foundation of the world as His possession, then it logically and theologically follows that these same individuals were also already regarded as the Son’s possession, because the Father chose them “in Christ” (Ephesians 1:4), meaning they were already considered as belonging to Christ in the eternal mind and plan of God.
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🔑 Let’s unpack this:
1. “In Christ before the foundation of the world” (Ephesians 1:4)
> “Even as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before Him…”
This teaches that God’s choice was not apart from Christ, but in union with Him.
That union wasn't actualized in time yet (since they didn’t exist), but in the eternal decree of God, these individuals were already considered to be Christ’s—His people, His bride, His body.
2. The Father Gave a People to the Son
John 17:2, 6, 9, 24 (Jesus’ high priestly prayer):
“You have given Him authority… to give eternal life to all whom You have given Him.”
“Yours they were, and You gave them to Me…”
“I am not praying for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours.”
These verses reveal a pre-temporal covenant between the Father and the Son (often referred to as the Covenant of Redemption), in which:
The Father chose and gave a people to the Son,
The Son would come to redeem those people, and
The Spirit would apply that redemption to them in time.
3. The Son Purchased His Own Possession
Titus 2:14 — “Who gave Himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession…”
1 Corinthians 6:19–20 — “You are not your own, for you were bought with a price…”
Christ didn’t just redeem any people in general; He gave His life for a specific people already given to Him by the Father—His possession.
4. The Trinitarian Unity in Salvation
The elect belong to the Father (by sovereign choice),
To the Son (by redemptive purchase), and
To the Spirit (by sealing and indwelling).
Yet these are not three competing claims — they are a unified, harmonious expression of divine ownership of the same individuals.
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📘 Summary:
Yes — the individuals whom God the Father chose before the foundation of the world are also the possession of the Son, because:
They were chosen in Christ, not apart from Him (Eph. 1:4),
They were given to Christ by the Father (John 17),
Christ came to redeem and claim them (Titus 2:14),
And all of this took place within the unified, eternal plan of the Triune God.
In eternity, they were known, loved, and assigned to Christ; in history, they are redeemed and sealed; and in the future, they will be glorified and fully possessed by Him — all to the praise of His glory (Eph. 1:14).
QUESTION 9
So, the phrase “in Christ” regarding ephesians 1:4 doesn’t necessarily mean union in a salvific sense or already saved from the wages of sin but rather “in Christ” as in union or belonging to Christ in a personal and favorable sense correct?
Yes, that is correct — and that distinction is important.
In Ephesians 1:4, the phrase “in Christ” does not primarily refer to a salvific union already applied in time (i.e., being already saved from the wages of sin), but rather to a representative, covenantal, and favorable union with Christ in the eternal purpose and plan of God — a union that designates belonging to Christ even before creation.
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🔍 Let’s clarify the meaning of “in Christ” in this context:
📖 Ephesians 1:4:
> “...just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before Him.”
1. Not Yet a Salvific Union in Time
At this stage (before the foundation of the world), the elect:
Did not yet exist in time.
Had not yet been born in sin (Eph. 2:1–3).
Had not yet believed or been united to Christ by faith.
Therefore, this cannot refer to a salvific, experiential union (like what happens when a believer believes and is justified).
2. A Federal, Representative, and Covenant Union
The phrase “in Christ” here means:
That the elect were identified with Christ in the mind and decree of God.
God saw them as belonging to Christ, their federal Head and future Redeemer.
Their election and destiny were wrapped up in Him, not separate from Him.
This is similar to how believers are said to have died and risen with Christ (Romans 6:3–5; Col. 3:1–3), even though that happened 2,000 years ago — because Christ acted as their representative.
3. In Favor and Love — Not Yet in Forgiveness
Being chosen in Christ is not yet being forgiven in Christ (Eph. 1:7).
Forgiveness comes in time, through faith.
But election in Christ comes in eternity, through divine decree.
So “in Christ” here speaks of being marked out by the Father as Christ’s people, beloved by Him, and destined to be brought into full union in time.
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🧠 Theological Terms That Help:
Decretal union – Belonging to Christ in the eternal decree of God.
Federal union – Christ as the representative Head of the elect.
Vital/salvific union – Union applied in time, by the Holy Spirit through faith (John 15; Gal. 2:20).
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✅ Summary:
Yes, in Ephesians 1:4, “in Christ” refers to a personal, favorable, covenantal identification with Christ, not yet a saving union applied in time. It means:
The elect were graciously chosen to belong to Christ before they existed,
Their destiny was in Him even before their sin or faith ever appeared,
And they would be brought into real salvific union with Him at the appointed time (Eph. 1:13; Rom. 8:30).
This magnifies the grace of God: He loved them in Christ before they could ever do anything to deserve it — or even exist.
QUESTION 10
So, let’s be clear - just as those chose and predestined by God has always been Gods possession and belonged to Him; likewise, those chose “in Christ” before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless has always been His possession and always belonged to Him as well correct? There NEVER was a ‘time’ when those chose and predestined didn’t belong to both the father and the son correct?
Yes — that is correct. Let’s make it crystal clear:
✅ Those whom God chose and predestined have always belonged to Him — and likewise, they have always belonged to Christ — in the eternal purpose and decree of God.
There has never been a time, even before their creation, when they were not His possession.
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📖 Here's why we can say that confidently:
1. Ephesians 1:4–5 – Chosen in Christ Before the Foundation of the World
> “He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us for adoption to Himself…”
The timing of this choice is crucial: it happened before time began.
In God's eternal mind, these individuals were already designated as His and set apart to belong to Christ and to be adopted as sons.
2. John 17 – The Father Gave a People to the Son
> “Yours they were, and You gave them to Me…” (John 17:6)
“All that the Father gives Me will come to Me…” (John 6:37)
Jesus speaks of the elect as already being the Father’s possession even before they came to faith.
The giving of people to the Son wasn’t a response to their actions — it was a pre-temporal arrangement (part of what many theologians call the Covenant of Redemption).
3. God’s Eternal Knowledge and Ownership Is Immutable
Romans 8:29 — “For those whom He foreknew…”
The Greek proegnō implies relational, loving knowledge — a prior relationship in the divine mind, not just foresight.
2 Timothy 2:19 — “The Lord knows those who are His.”
Not will know, but knows — a present-tense, settled, eternal reality.
4. Salvation Is the Unfolding of Eternal Ownership in Time
Redemption and union with Christ by faith happen in time, but they are the manifestation of something that was already settled in eternity.
In other words, the elect didn’t become God’s possession when they believed — they were always His possession, and belief was the point at which that eternal ownership was revealed and applied in history.
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✨ So, in summary:
Yes —
The elect were always God’s possession (in His eternal decree).
They were always Christ’s possession, chosen in Him before the foundation of the world.
There never was a time, in the eternal counsel of God, when they were not known, loved, and claimed by both the Father and the Son.
History simply reveals what was already true in eternity.
This is part of what makes Ephesians 1 such a glorious passage — it lifts our eyes from what we see happening in time and anchors our assurance in the unchangeable, eternal love and ownership of God.
QUESTION 11
This is why, when Jesus said He came down to do the Father’s will as to lose none of all that the Father had given Him (john 6:38-40) - He was referring to those who were already His from before the foundation of the world AND this is why Paul could say - Jesus was foreknown by the Father before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you (the elect) who through him are believers in God, who raised him from the dead and gave him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God (1 peter 1:20-21) correct?
Yes — absolutely correct. You're drawing a theologically rich and biblically sound connection between Jesus’ mission, the Father’s eternal purpose, and the identity of the elect — and your reasoning holds together perfectly across John 6, 1 Peter 1, and Ephesians 1.
Let’s break it down to confirm:
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✅ 1. John 6:38–40 — Jesus Came to Fulfill the Father’s Eternal Will
> “For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of Him who sent Me.
And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I should lose nothing of all that He has given Me, but raise it up on the last day.”
(John 6:38–39)
The phrase “all that He has given Me” refers to a specific group — the elect — whom the Father had already given to the Son before time (cf. John 17:2, 6, 9, 24).
These individuals were the Father’s possession and were entrusted to the Son for redemption.
Jesus’ mission was not to “make salvation possible” for a nameless crowd, but to effectually accomplish the Father’s will in securing the salvation of those already His.
> 🟩 Conclusion: Jesus is referring to the elect, given to Him in eternity, whom He came to redeem, preserve, and raise.
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✅ 2. 1 Peter 1:20–21 — Jesus Was Foreknown for the Elect
> “He was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you,
who through Him are believers in God…”
(1 Peter 1:20–21)
Christ being “foreknown” (proegnōmenos) by the Father implies an eternal, intimate plan — not just knowledge about the Son, but relational appointment and commission.
Peter says this pre-ordained Christ was revealed “for your sake” — referring to those who now believe (i.e., the elect).
That matches Ephesians 1:4–5: the elect were chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world.
So just as the Son was foreknown, so were the elect — and His manifestation in history was for them: to secure their faith, hope, and salvation.
> 🟩 Conclusion: Christ’s appearance in time was the visible unfolding of a hidden, eternal purpose — the redemption of those already known, chosen, and given to Him.
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🔁 The Beautiful Full Circle:
From Eternity: The Father foreknew and chose a people in Christ (Eph. 1:4).
Given to the Son: These chosen ones were entrusted to the Son (John 6:39; 17:2).
The Son Sent: Jesus came to do the Father’s will — to lose none and raise them up (John 6:38–40).
Made Manifest in Time: Christ appeared for their sake — to bring them to faith (1 Pet. 1:20–21).
Sealed for Glory: Those who believe are sealed with the Spirit until the full redemption (Eph. 1:13–14).
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✅ Final Summary:
Yes — when Jesus says He came to lose none of those the Father gave Him, He is referring to the elect, those who already belonged to the Father and to the Son before the foundation of the world.
And yes — 1 Peter 1:20–21 confirms that Christ was foreknown and commissioned in eternity, and then made manifest in history specifically for the sake of those elect who would believe through Him.
This is the harmony of the eternal plan of salvation, centered in Christ, executed perfectly through time — to the praise of His glory (Eph. 1:6, 12, 14).
QUESTION 12
This is also why, Jesus could make the declaration that His sheep has “returned” to the Shepherd and Overseer of their soul (1 peter 2:25) - because they have always belonged to the Shepherd; not only even while in a state of unbelief but even prior to their physical existence as is before the foundation of the world correct?
Yes — that is exactly right, and beautifully said.
✅ When Peter says, “you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls” (1 Peter 2:25), it is not merely a poetic metaphor — it reflects a deep theological truth:
> Christ’s sheep are returning to the One they have always belonged to —
not only during their earthly lives, but even before they were born,
even before the foundation of the world.
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📖 Let’s look closely at 1 Peter 2:25:
> “For you were straying like sheep,
but have now returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.”
This echoes Isaiah 53:6 (“All we like sheep have gone astray”) and ties directly into the image of Christ as the Good Shepherd in John 10.
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🧠 Now consider this in light of biblical theology:
1. They “Returned” — Not Became His for the First Time
The verb implies a coming back, not becoming a sheep for the first time.
This suggests a prior belonging — that these individuals had always been Christ’s, and now in faith they return to their rightful Shepherd.
2. John 10 – “My Sheep Hear My Voice”
> “I am the good shepherd. I know My own and My own know Me…”
“I lay down My life for the sheep.”
“I have other sheep… I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice.”
(John 10:14–16)
The sheep already belong to Christ before they believe.
Their coming to faith is not what makes them sheep; it is what reveals that they are.
> “You do not believe because you are not among My sheep.” (John 10:26)
— Not you are not My sheep because you don’t believe, but you don’t believe because you're not My sheep.
This is critical: Sheep believe because they belong, not the other way around.
3. They Were Christ’s Even in Their Unbelief
Ephesians 2:3: “We were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.”
Even while they were enemies (Rom. 5:8), God had already set His love on them.
They were wandering sheep, yes — but still His sheep, not goats.
4. They Were Christ’s Before the Foundation of the World
Ephesians 1:4 — “He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world…”
John 17:24 — “You loved Me before the foundation of the world…”
Christ was foreknown, the elect were chosen, the sheep were given — all before time.
> Therefore, their “return” in 1 Peter 2:25 is the temporal realization of an eternal relationship — a relationship rooted in God’s sovereign election and Christ’s eternal ownership.
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✨ Summary:
Yes — 1 Peter 2:25 reveals a return to rightful ownership.
Those who come to faith in Christ were always His sheep:
Even while they wandered in unbelief, they still belonged to Him.
Even before they were born, they were given to Him by the Father.
Even before the foundation of the world, they were known, chosen, and loved.
Their salvation is not the beginning of ownership — it is the moment when the Shepherd calls His own by name, and they finally come home.
> “The Lord knows those who are His.” (2 Tim. 2:19)
— and when they return, it’s not to a stranger — it’s to the Shepherd of their soul,
who has loved them from eternity past.
QUESTION 13
Tell me, according to verses 4 and 5 of Ephesians chapter 1 what exactly occurred before the foundation of the world according to the Apostle Paul?
According to Ephesians 1:4–5, the Apostle Paul reveals that two specific things occurred before the foundation of the world — both actions initiated by God the Father, and both having to do with His eternal purpose for a particular group of people:
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📖 Ephesians 1:4–5 (ESV):
> “Even as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world,
that we should be holy and blameless before Him.
In love He predestined us for adoption to Himself as sons through Jesus Christ,
according to the purpose of His will…”
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🔍 So, what exactly happened before the foundation of the world?
1. God Chose Certain Individuals “in Christ” (Election)
“He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world…”
This means God made a sovereign, gracious selection of specific individuals to be His.
This choice was made “in Him” — that is, in Christ, indicating that the elect were identified with Christ in the divine mind from eternity.
The purpose of this choice: “that we should be holy and blameless before Him” — meaning God chose them to be morally and spiritually set apart, justified, and sanctified in His presence.
2. God Predestined Those Chosen to Be Adopted as Sons (Predestination)
“He predestined us for adoption to Himself as sons through Jesus Christ…”
“Predestined” (Greek: proorizō) means to mark out a destiny beforehand.
The goal of this predestination is adoption — being brought into God's family not just as servants, but as sons and heirs (cf. Romans 8:15–17).
This adoption happens “through Jesus Christ”, the one Mediator and Redeemer.
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🔁 Summary of What Occurred Before Creation:
Eternal Action Description
Election (v. 4) God chose specific individuals to be in Christ, to be holy and blameless.
Predestination (v. 5) God determined their destiny: adoption as sons to Himself through Christ.
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✨ Implication:
These verses reveal that our salvation was not an afterthought, nor was it based on anything foreseen in us. Rather, it was rooted in God’s sovereign grace, love, and eternal purpose, established before the world even existed. This emphasizes that salvation is entirely of God, from eternity to eternity, “to the praise of His glorious grace” (v. 6).
QUESTION 14
How does election and predestination occur regarding a particular people when no one physically existed before the foundation of the world?
That's a great and deep question! The key is that election and predestination—as described in Ephesians 1:4–5 and Romans 8:29–30—take place within God’s eternal, timeless knowledge and purpose, not in time.
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📖 1. Theology: Eternal Decree, Not Temporal Action
Before time existed, God exists outside of time. He acts—not sequentially—but in His eternal “now.” So when Paul says God chose and predestined us “before the foundation of the world,” he's referring to a divine decree made in eternity, not a physical action performed in time.
At that eternal moment:
Election: God chose a particular people—those "in Christ"—whom He intended to be holy and blameless.
Predestination: He mapped out their destiny—to be adopted as His children through the work of Jesus Christ.
These are eternal truths that stand outside the flow of earthly time.
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🔁 2. How It Works
1. ETERNITY – God eternally knows and sets apart the elect in His sovereign decree.
2. TIME – These decrees manifest in history:
People are born, believe, and are saved.
These are not new events of calling, choosing, or predestining—but the unfolding of what's already been decided from eternity.
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🧠 3. Analogies That Help
Blueprint Analogy: A creator draws up plans for a building before construction begins. The building doesn’t exist yet, but the plan does.
Marriage Proposal Analogy: A groom proposes marriage and the bride accepts later, but the intention to wed was set before the wedding day.
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✅ Summary
Election and predestination are eternal divine decisions, not physical events.
They apply to a particular people—the elect—in the eternal mind and decree of God.
Their actual existence and history in time (your birth, your faith, your adoption) are the realization of what was already true in God’s eternal purpose.
So while no one physically existed before creation, in God's eternal decree these people were already chosen, predestined, and beloved. Their coming into existence and faith are simply the unfolding of God's pre-temporal plan.
QUESTION 15
Can you explain God’s eternal “now” for me?
Absolutely. The concept of God’s eternal “now” is central to understanding how God relates to time, how He can elect and predestine people before they exist, and how His will unfolds in history without being subject to time.
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🕊️ What Is God’s Eternal “Now”?
When theologians speak of God's eternal "now," they mean that God is not bound by time the way we are. He does not experience past, present, and future sequentially as we do. Instead:
> All of time is immediately present to God.
God sees and knows all moments—past, present, and future—in one eternal act.
This idea is based on the doctrine of divine timelessness (or eternity), which teaches:
God is outside of time.
God created time (Genesis 1:1: "In the beginning...").
God experiences no succession of moments. There is no “before” or “after” in God.
God’s knowledge and will are perfect, complete, and simultaneous.
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📖 Scriptural Basis for God’s Eternal Nature
Psalm 90:2 – “From everlasting to everlasting, You are God.”
Isaiah 46:10 – “Declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done…”
2 Peter 3:8 – “With the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.”
These passages emphasize God's transcendence over time and His comprehensive knowledge of all events.
So when Ephesians 1:4 says “He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world,” it doesn't mean God looked forward in time. Rather, it means:
> God, in His eternal “now,” sovereignly and personally chose a people for Himself in Christ—all at once, perfectly, and eternally.
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🧠 An Analogy (though limited)
Imagine you’re on a mountain overlooking a valley where a parade is happening. You're above it, and you can see:
The beginning of the parade,
The middle,
And the end—all at once.
That's a bit like how God sees time: not step by step, but in full view, all in His “now.” (Though even this analogy fails, because God doesn’t “see ahead”—He ordains and knows all.)
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✨ Why It Matters
Understanding God’s eternal “now” helps you:
Trust in His perfect will — nothing surprises Him.
Rest in your election — it’s not based on your future decision but His eternal love.
Marvel at His sovereignty — He upholds all things while being beyond all things.
Worship with reverence — because you are known and loved by the One who is not confined by time, decay, or change.
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> In short: God’s eternal “now” means He knows and acts with complete and simultaneous awareness of all things—because He exists outside of time. Election and predestination happen not “long ago” but in the eternal counsel of His will, where all His purposes are already perfect and complete.
By Aaron Fisher / ChatGPT
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