John 8 (God's Elect, the Children of Promise, and the Reprobate)

Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.” - JOHN 8:46-47

At the onset, Jesus had acknowledged that these particular Jews were physical descendants of Abraham (john 8:37) but he denounced the idea that they were indeed spiritual descendants of Abraham according to faith in God (john 8:39-42) - as in the children of Promise; being those given to Him from the Father. Jesus understood that these particular Jews had been predestined to disobey the word of the Lord and to stumble over the stumbling stone as to perish; seeing that Christ Himself was that very stone - a rock of offense (isaiah 8:13-15, luke 20:17-18, matthew 21:42,1peter 2:6-8, and romans 9:32). This is why he asserted that the slave doesn't remain in the house forever; the son does (john 8:35). The slave or hired hand has no inheritance regarding the household of which he serves; the inheritance of the Father belongs to the natural born son. However, Christ was using this biblical fact to reveal to these Jews that they too were not considered to be sons of God as to have an inheritance because they were not given to Him as heirs according to the promise made to Abraham (genesis 17:7 and galatians 3:29). For it was not granted unto them to believe; this privilege is only reserved for those given to Christ; His sheep. These particular Jews in John 8 did not belong to God nor were among Christ sheep; if they were then they would have believed having been predestined as Children of Promise beforehand (genesis 17:7).

Mind you, Jesus denounced these Jews to be spiritual descendants of Abraham (which would have been demonstrated by their faith) PRIOR TO them actually having believed to indeed confirm the fact that the son of the slave woman (as not belonging to the Abrahamic Covenant) shall not share in the inheritance of the privileged son (child of promise) of the free woman (galatians 4:30) who indeed is of or truly belongs to the Abrahamic Covenant (Genesis 17:7). The son of the slave woman remains in spiritual bondage but the son of the free woman is set free from sin and his final destination is Jerusalem which is above (galatians 4:22-31). The Abrahamic Covenant promises salvation to all who belong to it; a particular group of people of whom God has chosen beforehand (genesis 17:7). God had promised beforehand to Abraham to be God to a particular people who would be forgiven and reconciled back to Him in right standing through His Son Jesus Christ. Therefore, salvation is inevitable for some and not others; for these particular group of people are namely; the Children of Promise who are to be saved. Not everyone is a child of promise; if so, then everyone would ultimately be saved. So, seeing that it is impossible for everyone to be considered a "child of promise" then it's likewise impossible for everyone  as in "all without exception" to ever come to saving faith. Furthermore, it is also impossible for anyone according to their "free will" to believe apart from already having been given to the Son prior to. Free will is not a factor in one's salvation; only the mercy and grace of God that was predetermined only toward the children of promise (romans 4:11-18 and hebrews 6:13-20). This is what is occuring in John 8. These particular Jews would not believe because they were not foreordained to believe. They were not of God's Elect. They were not the children of promise. They were in fact considered to be the reprobate of the Jews; those of whom God has passed over from birth for salvation (romans 9:11,13).

Jesus confirmed that it was impossible for these Jews to ever believe as to be saved; therefore their damnation was certain (romans 9:22). He acknowledged that they did not belong to God; therefore they were not to be counted as the spiritual descendants of Abraham who were promised to Him as heirs; the children of promise. For it is the privileged son who remains in God's house forever; not the child of the slave woman who was passed over as not belonging to the Abrahamic Covenant as to share in the inheritance. John 8 is a clear example as to prove; it is only those given to the Son beforehand that will believe and be saved - while excluding all others. No one can be saved apart from already belonging to the Abrahamic Covenant beforehand - proving that it is an impossibility for everyone as in all without exception to be saved; especially according to the so called "free will" of man. Those who will indeed perish - it is understood that they will have proven themselves to be reprobate.

By Aaron Fisher 

Gentiles nor the Church is "spiritual Israel".

For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God. / ROMANS 2:28-29

Consider the reading and context of Romans chapter 1-3 first and foremost. Nonetheless, Romans chapter 2 Verses 1-11 is in reference to God showing no partiality - to the Jew first, then to the Gentile regarding those who not only practice such evil things (1:22-23) as deserving to die, but also give approval to others who likewise practice them. In that, everyone who judges another; have no excuse - for in passing judgement on another they only condemn themselves. And those who practice such evil deeds will not escape the judgement of God; storing up wrath against themselves on the day of God's wrath. In light of this fact, God will render to each one according to their works - to the Jew first then to the Gentile. 

The Immediate Context:

(1) Verses 12-13 is in regards to both groups; JEW AND GENTILE.

(2) Verse 14-16 is in regards to the GENTILES.

(3) Verse 17 is the transition from Gentile to JEW. From verse 17 to 25; Paul is addressing Jews - only to point out their hypocrisy in regards to the Law.

(4) Verses 26-27 Paul makes the transition from Jew back to Gentile only to contrast the uncircumcised Gentile who keeps the Law against the circumcised Jew who doesn't in light of their hypocrisy.

(5) Verses 28-29 - Paul is clarifying to the Jew ONLY that - the only ethnic Jew (not Gentile) who's praise is from God is a ethnic Jew who's heart has been spiritually circumcised by the Spirit. Paul is NOT saying that Gentiles are considered to be (spiritual) Jews nor Israel just because they too may be circumcised in heart as well. Paul has already made the claim that the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because as a Jew they were considered hypocrites as to preach to others (the Gentiles) concerning the Law and their disobedience to it but in fact they were dishonoring God. From verses 17-29 Paul was rebuking the Jews for the hypocrisy in regards to the Law and their boast in physical circumcision. In fact, Paul continues to address the Jews (not Gentiles) in Chapter 3 going forth. The only reason Paul introduced the Gentiles in verses 14-27 is to rebuke the Jews for their confidence in the Law and circumcision of flesh only; as to be made right with God. The Gentiles are NOT "spiritual" Israel. Nor is the Church considered  to be "spiritual Israel". Such an interpretation is being read into the text. 

However, are elect Gentiles circumcised in heart along with elect Jews? Absolutely! But a distinction still remains between the two; and this continued distinction is seen throughout the Book of Romans. Ethnic Jews are the natural branches and Gentiles are wild branches that have been grafted into Israel's olive tree. The Church consist of both Jew and Gentile - "true or spiritual" Israel are the "natural branches" of the Olive Tree of which the Gentiles are not (romans 11:23-29). The Gentiles could never be considered Israel for they are not the natural branches! As regards to election; the true "spiritual Israel" is beloved by God for the sake of the promise made to their forefathers. However, 'mere' ethnic Israel in flesh only are considered to be the Gentiles enemies for the Gospel sake (romans 11:29). Therefore, the Gentiles cannot ever be addressed as "spiritual Israel" as to usurp only ethnic Israel's rightful status as believers in Yeshua who's praise is from God. This fact has clearly been plainly written.

Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in - ROMANS 11:25

By Aaron Fisher 

Christ "tasted death" for everyone? What does the Scriptures actually say?

One of the most popular verse of Scripture used by those attempting to justify an unlimited atonement is Hebrews 2:9

But we see him [Christ] who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

But those who attempt to use this verse to justify such a position has gravely misinterpreted the writers thoughts and intentions pertaining to this particular verse by destroying the context to which it is being applied. There needs to be initially a careful study of the entire book of Hebrews in order for one to rightly divide it's worded contents and author's intentions as to what he is trying to specifically convey.

In my study, why "tasting death" for everyone is NOT a reference to "all people" without exception in Hebrews 2:9 but rather "all people" for whom Jesus suffered death for (Hebrews 2:9-13); even unto the Cross. Contextually, according to the Book of Hebrews; this would be - (1) many sons *2:10* (2) all those given to the son from the Father *2:13* (3) Christ brothers *2:12* (4) offspring of Abraham *2:16* (5) heirs of promise *6:17* (6) eternal source of Salvation for all those who obey Him *5:9* (7) those who draw near to God *7:25* (8) those who are called *9:15* (9) those whom Jesus made propitiation for their sins *2:17* (10) Christ sheep *13:20* and (11) those whom God would forgive according to the promise of the New Covenant *8:6-13*. Christ "tasted death" for a specific group of people!

If Jesus "tasted death" for everyone without exception then He is everyone's Interceding High Priest for Christ obedience, even unto His death on the Cross, exalted him to this position of highest honor and crowned with glory - that being of an Eternal High Priest according to Hebrews 2:9-18.

And if Christ "tasted death" for everyone then He is presumably also their Eternal High Priest - and as a result "everyone" would be saved for it was through His suffering, that Christ would not only be made the founder of their Salvation (those whom He tasted death for) but as an Eternal High Priest, their Salvation would be unmistakably effectual and inevitable; because, according to Scripture, Christ as High Priest is a High Priest of the NEW COVENANT(after the order of Melchizedek). The New Covenant is an Unconditional Covenant. This Covenant was unconditional in the sense that it was SOLEY based upon what God would UNILATERALLY do and fulfill or bring to pass and NOT according to ANYTHING that man would do or contribute to. The New Covenant and the fulfilment of it is NOT based upon man's performance and/or obedience! God PROMISED and took it upon Himself to provide a means for sinful man to be made right with God. What man COULD NOT do for himself - in particular, obey what God would command him to do; God would soley do, by replacing the 'old stubborn heart of stone' with a 'new compliant heart of flesh' ACCORDING TO the PROMISE of the New Covenant! The New Covenant also "unconditionally" provided for "forgiveness of sins."  This is why when Hebrews speaks of Christ atonement/propitiation (Hebrews 2:17, 8:10-12, 10:15-17), it is a REMOVAL of GOD'S WRATH UNCONDITIONALLY in spite of what sinful man does or to be more specific - in spite of what sins God's Elect will commit. God ultimately passes over the sins of His Chosen Ones! God NEVER intends to bestow His wrath of judgement upon those whom He has foreloved and promised Eternal Life to before creation. The removal of God's wrath is the means for forgiveness of sins provided for by the promise of the New Covenant.

So, if Jesus "tasted death" on the Cross for everyone then everyone would be saved for Jesus death exalted him to the position of an Eternal High Priest and as High Priest; His intercessory work is by necessity EFFECTUAL seeing that Christ is both Shepherd of His Sheep AND High Priest of the very SAME sheep - meaning that, ALL who Christ intercedes for will INEVITABLY come to a saving faith (John 17, Hebrews 2:10-12 & 17, 5:1-10, 9:11-15)!

However, the Scriptures DO NOT speak of a potential"universal atonement" based upon man's "free will". On the contrary, Christ "tasted death" for all those whom He would suffer death for. He suffered for those whom He would ultimately intercede for as High Priest. And as an Eternal High Priest, Christ intercessory work is EFFECTUAL for all those given to Him from the Father. All those given to Christ from the Father, are those for whom propitiation is made. Heirs according to promise are the Children of Promise, and the Children of Promise are the Elect/Sheep; a particular called out group of people chosen before the creation of the world. Christ, according to the New Covenant, is the Shepherd of the Sheep but ALSO the Eternal High Priest of the SAME New Covenant EFFECTUALLY bringing many "sons and brothers" to glory of those that the Father has given Him from eternity past!

Conclusion: In short, Christ tasted death for everyone whom He suffered death for; and those whom He suffered death for (Hebrews 2:14,16,17, 9:15) are (1) The Father's children given to Christ, (2) offspring of Abraham (3) Christ brethren, who are also the spiritual offspring of Abraham, (4) and those CALLED to be Heirs of Promise.

HEBREWS 2:9-13 - CONTEXT MATTERS!

But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the SUFFERING OF DEATH, so that by the grace of God he might TASTE DEATH FOR EVERYONE.

For it was fitting that he, for whom and by whom all things exist, in BRINGING MANY SONS TO GLORY, should make the FOUNDER OF THEIR SALVATION PERFECT THROUGH SUFFERING.For he who sanctifies and those who are sanctified all have one source. That is why he is NOT ASHAMED TO CALL THEM BROTHERS, saying,

“I will TELL OF YOUR NAME TO MY BROTHERS;

in the midst of the congregation I will sing your praise.”

And again, “I will put my trust in him.”

And again, “Behold, I and the CHILDREN GOD HAS GIVEN ME.”

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1) The SUFFERING unto DEATH in verse 9 is in connection to Christ tasting death for EVERYONE

2) The same SUFFERING in verse 10 is in connection to Christ and His sufferings attributed to the MANY SONS on their behalf and Him being the founder of their (MANY SONS) salvation.

3) Christ is NOT ASHAMED to call them (MANY SONS) BROTHERS

4) Christ BROTHERS and the Father's MANY SONS are one and the same people; therefore, those whom Christ is not ashamed of and those whom He SUFFERED DEATH for are also the SAME ONES He TASTED DEATH for (verse 9 & 10).

5) Christ TASTED DEATH for the Father's MANY SONS and His BROTHERS!

6) Christ BROTHERS are those GIVEN TO HIM from the FATHER (verse 13)

7) Christ COULD NOT have possibly tasted death for EVERYONE without exception for He suffered death ONLY for the MANY SONS who are Christ BROTHERS (verse 10). And if Christ suffered death only for the MANY SONS who are His BROTHERS then He also TASTED DEATH - ONLY for the MANY SONS and His BROTHER'S. If Christ BROTHERS were given to Him from the Father; then How could Christ taste death for everyone and at the same time suffer death ONLY for His BROTHERS; who were given to Him by the Father? Unless you're prepared to argue that everyone without exception is given to Christ from the Father then you have no sound exegetical argument and have definitely misinterpreted the text. Christ cannot suffer death for an exclusive group of people and at the same time taste death inclusively for everyone; for Christ tasting of death and His suffering of death are synonymous - He tasted death by way of His suffering of death.

8) Christ DID NOT taste death for everyone without exception but ONLY for those given to Him from the Father

IGNORE CONTEXT and MISUNDERSTAND THE TEXT!

In short, the writer of Hebrews qualifies the "everyone" whom Christ tasted death for - and it is the Children of God the Father given to the Son; NOT "everyone" without exception! Christ tasted death for everyone of all that was given to Him by the Father! Let's us continually strive to keep Scripture in it's proper context to avoid falling into doctrinal error by rightfully dividing the Word of God!

By Aaron Fisher..

Does "foreknowledge" necessitate Determinism?

Leighton Flowers denies the scriptural argument that the reason why God knows what will occur is because He has predetermined what will occur or that God's foreknowledge of future events is based upon an eternal decree. If the overall purpose of God is fulfilled by the evil intensions of the creature - then how is the creature "free" as to do other than what God has already planned involving the creature as to fulfill His purpose since God's plan precedes His purposes and is the very reason His purposes are fulfilled? How can the creature escape God's decree or predetermined plan that is essential in fulfilling His "good purposes" that Leighton speaks of?

However Sir, in spite of your assertion; the obvious question still remains based upon your logic - if, "God is capable of knowing and using free creatures with sinful intentions to accomplish His good purposes without decreeing their evil intentions" as you claim - then does the "free creature" still have the freedom to do other than what God already knows beforehand what he will do seeing that His "good purposes" involving man derive from a predetermined plan which in return is non-contradictory to what He already knows beforehand? If the entirety of God's plan is determined before creation then everything that occurs proceeding or because of his plan has to be predetermined in order that His purposes according to His plan might be fulfilled.

I'm arguing, If God knew beforehand that the "free will" creature would do X, then what God already knew could never contradict OR not be contingent upon His predetermined plan for the creature to do X - because creature X would be fulfilling the purpose of God in doing X based upon God's eternal plan that had been already established. Therefore what God knew creature X would do beforehand as to fulfill His "good purpose" was based upon an already established predetermined plan. God knows what will occur because He has already predetermined what will occur unless those such as yourself who oppose such an view is prepared to argue that what God knows beforehand as it relates to His purposes being fulfilled somehow is not contingent upon His eternal plan which precedes those very same purposes being fulfilled.

In other words, those who oppose my conclusion must be prepared to argue that what God knows beforehand as it relates to His purposes being fulfilled (that the creature would do X) is not contingent upon His predetermined plan (that the creature would do X) that was before creation in order that His "good purpose" (involving the creature to do X) might be fulfilled - because in doing so they would have illogically and unscripturally established that what God knows beforehand is not contingent upon Him predetermining every occurrence in order to fulfill His "good purposes" BUT rather that somehow God's "good purposes" could come to pass soley based upon the will of the creature and what He already knew APART FROM and not based upon the very thing (His overall predetermined plan) that His purposes essentially derive from.

God plans; and His purposes come to fruition according to His plan - this is my argument. Therefore, His purposes involving man that come to pass are contingent upon what He has already established. It cannot be that the "good purposes" of God to which Leighton speaks of involving man can come to pass apart from the very plan of which His purposes procede and derive from; such a notion would be unbiblical, let alone illogical - for if man was "free" as to have the ability to always do other than what God foreknew what he would do then God's omniscience would be undermined and come into question. However, since man does not possess such an ability - then man can never do other than what God already knew what He would do. Therefore, since man can never do other than what God already knew - man's actions are based upon God's knowledge beforehand which is contingent upon God's decree or predetermined plan. Either way, man cannot escape from the "good purposes" of God in spite of his good or evil intension due to God's foreknowledge which is contingent upon His eternal decree. 

By Aaron Fisher